TLDR;
Just can’t shake the feeling that your career isn’t quite aligning with who you truly are?
If so, you’re not alone. Many leaders wrestle with these exact challenges every single day.
In this episode of the Uncommon Leadership Podcast, I, Michael Hunter, am diving deep into these very real struggles with the brilliant Dr. Rebecca Parsons, former CTO of ThoughtWorks.
We intend to uncover unconventional insights that can transform your leadership, your team, and your entire sense of fulfillment.
Dr. Parsons pulls back the curtain on her remarkable journey, starting with a surprising truth: even at a young age, she knew the secret to preventing that “off” feeling. It was all about defining success on her terms and embracing her authentic self—someone who truly loved math, science, and everything geeky!
This is her story about how she relentlessly refused to compromise who she really was.
What allowed her to develop such profound self-awareness so early?
What empowered her to challenge norms and even prove a university professor wrong when he doubted women’s capabilities in tech?
Let’s find out together. We’ll discover why the authentic ability to say “I don’t know” is a superpower and how focusing on outcomes instead of micromanaging unlocks creativity.
Dr. Rebecca Parsons wraps her compelling journey with a bombshell: if 100% of your “innovations” succeed, you’re taking too little risk. She goes on to explain the crucial difference between a bad idea and a constructive failure—a distinction that could be the key to your organization’s very survival.
Take a seat and join us as we tackle some of the most troublesome quandaries in organizational leadership.
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Want to get in touch with the speakers?
About Dr. Rebecca Parsons:
A former CTO of ThoughtWorks for 17 years, Dr. Parsons is a renowned technologist and advocate for diversity in STEM, known for her expertise in tech strategy and evolutionary architecture.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-rebecca-parsons/
About Michael Hunter:
Michael Hunter is the host of the Uncommon Leadership podcast and founder of Uncommon Teams, guiding leaders to align personal fulfillment with business success and cultivate authentic teams.
https://uncommonteams.com/work-with-me/
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Presented By: Uncommon Change
Transcript:
Michael Hunter
Whether you want more innovation more easily, you are feeling burnt out or overwhelmed, or you simply know that something isn’t quite the way you know it can be, you are not alone. I hear the same from leaders every day. On Uncommon Leadership, we explore aligning personal fulfillment with business success, creating authentic teams, and cultivating the resilience necessary to move beyond simply surviving today’s challenges into thriving.
I’m Michael Hunter, and today we’ll uncover fresh insights into what it means to lead with resilience, adaptability, and ease. Joining me today is Rebecca Parsons. Rebecca has more tech experience than she cares to admit, working across all aspects of computing. I think I’m right there with you, Rebecca.
She has eclectic interests, including evolutionary computation, evolutionary architecture, AI, programming languages, and systems. She served as CTO for ThoughtWorks for about 17 years and is a frequent conference speaker. Welcome, Rebecca.
Rebecca Parsons
Thank you, Michael. It’s good to be here.
Michael
I have been looking forward to hearing you, to having you here ever since I heard you on some podcast rather recently.
Rebecca
Cut the onion, I believe.
Michael
That’s it, yes. Thank you for reminding me. When, Rebecca, did you first recognize that integrating your whole self, bringing that into everything that you do, might be a valuable approach?
Rebecca
Well, I think it’s just something that I’ve done all of my life. I’ve always enjoyed reading and learning.
I was one of those crazy people who loved summer because you could go to summer school, so you would have both summer and school and isn’t that great? Most people thought I was crazy, but oh well.
But I also at various points in time recognized that it was really very important to understand what did success look like to me?
And then try to ensure you’re in a situation, whether it be school, whether it be work, whether it be friendships, that your definition of success is aligned with those other parties. Because if they’re not aligned, it’s a very unhappy place to be. You either feel personally that you’re being successful and everybody else thinks you’re failing.
Or everybody else thinks you’re being successful and you feel like you’re failing. And that is not a good place to be. And one has to think carefully about what are the things that are most important. What are the things that are nice to haves and kind of negotiables.
And what are the non negotiables?
Nope, not going there. And that’s going to be different for every person. And by doing that thinking, then I was able to either find places or create spaces where I could live out that definition of success. And it worked for me, and it worked for the organization.
Michael
It sounds like you were Paying attention to that definition of success early, early on, like maybe in elementary school, even?
Rebecca
Yes. Certainly by the time I got to what is sometimes called middle school or junior high. I was already starting to, think that way and, you know, this is who I am.
I’ve always known I was a geek. I love math, I love science, I love history. And if that meant I wasn’t going to be popular in school, that meant I wasn’t going to be popular in school. But Expressing my passion around math and science and technology was a whole lot more important to me than being popular in high school.
Michael
That’s an amazing amount of insight into yourself and comfort with who you are at a really early age. What helps you have that?
Rebecca
I think a lot of it comes down to my parents. I was raised on a seminary. My father was, when I was born a professor of, canon law at a theological seminary for the Episcopal Church.
My mother was trained as a social worker. She had a master’s in social work. She was a voracious reader, and I’m sure that’s where my love of reading comes from. We would go to the library every week and she would come back with this huge stack of books and have read them by the time we went back to the library the next week.
But I think one of the important things was they instilled in all of us this sense that if we worked hard and we really tried that we could do what we wanted to do. Even though I’m sure some people would, think, Oh, you know, you were raised in a religious family, therefore, you know, you were told that, you know, girls are too stupid to do math or anything like that.
And and we had nothing, nothing like that. They always encouraged us to pursue whatever we thought was important. And I think, having that breadth, my brother’s a fisheries biologist. My sister is a medical doctor and I’m the geek in the family. Three very, very different career paths and all of that was fine.
Michael
You and I had a very similar upbringing. My dad is a pastor in United Methodist Church. My mom double majored in math and psychology, graduating in three years, and, we were also raised, As voracious readers, I remember my mom reading Lord of the Rings to my sister and I when I was like five. And I was the one bringing home the stacks of books and getting through them every other week.
I think my mom maybe was occupied taking care of us and not as much time reading. So,
getting through all of that. Junior high, senior high, into college, unscathed by being so different, must have helped you, given your really different perspective to all the other kids starting careers early in their careers. How did that show up for you and what was it like for you?
Rebecca
Well, I think one thing that really helped, As in my intro, I’m not going to give you, you know, a number about, you know, when I started in technology.
Although, I started learning to program when I was 13 years old.
And as a woman in technology, it has not been easy but, you know, I think, I think being so clear on the fact that, you know, I am a geek. I cannot imagine. Not being involved in technology. It just, it’s, so counter who I am. And, I think having that comfort meant that I wasn’t going to let anybody, you know, tell me otherwise.
I had a university professor in my second semester at university, who told me that women were incapable of understanding math and computer science.
And the three other women and I got together and decided we were going to prove him to be the idiot that we knew he was. And all four of us got A’s.
Funny how some of the men actually had to drop out because they weren’t doing very well. and so you know, that, that was just, okay, well, I know, I know you don’t know what you’re talking about. And so I, think having those experiences early also then, you know, allowed me to do some experiments.
I had my, my computer science degree was in some ways almost a business degree even though it came out of the, College of Arts and Sciences because I had to take two semesters of economics and one of marketing and, you know, one of just traditional business administration and I fell in love with economics and so I decided okay well I’ve got this group of electives, that’s what they’re called.
And so I got a degree in economics as well, just because I loved it. Now, not surprisingly, it was very mathematically focused, you know, my favorite classes were, you know, regression and mathematical economics, but, you know, when I saw something that I really liked, okay, well, let’s go for it.
Michael
How has that background that’s both very similar to what a lot of computer geeks have had and also very different with the breadth of expertise, not a very focused on just the CS piece. How have you noticed that’s made a difference in how you perceive what’s going on? in the teams that you’ve been on versus what other people seem to be understanding?
Rebecca
I think it comes down to, having, a broader perspective. And I did have, I had someone relatively early in my career probably my third or fourth year out of university who was an exceptional manager, and he really helped galvanize how I thought about teens. He said, in a very real way, I work for you.
My job is to make sure that you have everything that you need to do your job well and so if you’re not doing your job well, that’s partially on me, and we need to figure out what kind of support you need to do your job well. And so, you know, thinking about it that way, and understanding that individuals have their own strengths, weaknesses, biases, perspectives, spots. I think having that, breadth of Interest and expertise gave me more of a chance to connect with people that I might not always connect with.
I mean, it always seemed natural to me, for example, when I was talking to a business stakeholder, to talk in the language of the business. I might think this technology is really cool and shiny and all of this, but he doesn’t care about that. He cares about business value. He cares about business risk. He wants to understand, you know, the cost benefit trade off for those things.
And how shiny the technology is doesn’t enter into that equation. It just doesn’t. And, I never understood why that was so difficult for some of my colleagues to understand. I, had one person I worked with, he came was for a retailer in the UK. And he came to me and said, they won’t let me, they won’t give me the resources to run the database recovery test.
I said, well, how are you selling it? And he started talking about rebuilding indices and all of the stuff that goes into doing a database recovery. I said, stop! Go back and ask him if he wants to know how long the database will be down if it crashes on Boxing Day. And the guy came back and said, I’m shocked.
He said, yes. And he said, well of course he did. He needs to know that. He doesn’t care about how database recovery works. He cares about his risk exposure, you know, on the day that is the bulk of his revenue for the year. You know, I mean, and that just always seemed completely logical to me and yet it seems so shocking to, some of my colleagues.
And I think having that set of experiences, you know, some, of the training and economics and things of that nature helped give me that broader perspective.
Michael
What are you finding helpful in helping the new up and coming kids understand and achieve that broader perspective?
Rebecca
My big thing is just encouraging people to develop a love for learning. You don’t have to love school, but you cannot survive, particularly in the technology world, but even more broadly in the world around us, if you say, Okay, I’m going to stop learning at the age of 25 and never going to learn anything new again.
I mean, you won’t be able to make it in the world and I know it’s harder, you know, I, spent a lot of time twice a year going around my, parents house and changing all of the clocks because they never really did understand, you know, how to make the clock on the VCR work or how to make the clock on the oven work.
And so I know it’s hard, but if you can truly get to the point where you love learning and exploring and experimenting, then that’s going to set you up. When you come into a conversation, it is going to be more about what are the gems that I can learn from you, not, you know, what can I get you to do for me or something like that.
Michael
If I’d like to get started on that. And it, I don’t have any idea, what to even do? What are a couple things that I might start playing with?
Rebecca
Well one thing is to try to understand how you learn best. Some people learn best by reading. Some people learn best by listening. Some people learn best by listening but then writing it down.
For some people they, like to watch videos, others like to read text, for some people they are visual learners, others, you know, they like numbers or charts or graphs and so that’s the first thing, because if you feel like you’re constantly fighting the mechanism, the delivery of content to you, you’re not going to find that to be a fun learning experience.
And then once you do that: look around the world. What interests you today that you’ve never read about before?
And find something in your chosen medium. I very often talk to people who are doing knowledge management systems. About the fact that they really need to pay more attention to accidental learning. One of the most important books for my PHD, dissertation, and it was only about that thick. I didn’t find because I was looking for it. I found because I was in the section in the library. Yes, there were physical libraries back then. And next to the book I was looking for, you know, I kind of scanned, you know, a half a dozen books each way and saw this.
And thought, hey, that title sounds promising. we don’t support browsing enough. And even, you know, even HTML and such, it’s a good way to go down a rabbit hole. It’s not necessarily a good way to just browse. and, you know, maybe it’s you go into your local bookstore. You know, maybe you use a recommendation style engine on something like YouTube.
Who knows? but just think, start to try to find topics that are of interest to you, and be willing to abandon them if you don’t like them. I rarely do not fin a book I start. It has happened, but it’s very rare. but sometimes they’re just not interesting. It’s like, okay, well, that had real promise, but I’m, you know, a quarter of the way in and it’s still not doing anything for me.
And so, particularly early in this exploration, be willing to fail fast. Be willing to say, no, this is not worth any more of my time. And go and try to find something new.
Michael
So, it’s really another way, maybe, to say What you’ve just said is, we have to ignite our curiosity, once the curiosity is there, then learning is going to happen.
Rebecca
Yep, but do be conscious of how you go about satisfying that curious impulse. Because you can also kill it. I know, I know people who really, really don’t like watching videos.
They’ll do podcasts, they’ll read long form articles, but they just don’t like watching videos. if the only thing you can find on something that you’re curious is a video, Figure out how to make it more interesting, you know. I’m a big fan these days of running things at, 1. 5 speed, because I’m one of those people who doesn’t like consuming content from videos.
and I find that for most speakers you can get away with that. It cuts down the amount of time and, and that seems to work for me, but to me video is kind of a last resort.
Michael
Yes, thank you Rebecca for that reminder that it’s curiosity fostered by information coming in the way that we prefer to learn is really key.
Rebecca
I think.
Michael
And that’s then something that we as leaders can do to help our people, whether they are direct reports or people that we’re leading outside of the organizational structure, to understand how do they want to learn, and then both as we’re giving, offering information to them, helping them spin up on the technology or present to you stakeholders or whatever helps them give them information in the format that they prefer and also help them understand how to start asking for information in the way that they prefer.
Rebecca
Mm hmm.
Michael
Which is a great lead in to my next question. How do you build cultures and how do you help the people that you are helping build cultures? Where people feel safe and empowered to bring their unique talents into everything that they do.
Rebecca
The critical factor is psychological safety and to me one of the bigglers for that is the authentic ability to say these three words.
Which some people seem just completely incapable of saying, which is, I don’t know. You, can add on to it. I don’t know, but I’ll find out.
I don’t know, but I think this is what it is. but being authentic about the fact that, like everybody else, you’re a human being, there are limits to your knowledge.
And there’s nothing wrong with being ignorant of something, that just means you haven’t been exposed to it yet, being deliberately ignorant or trying to hide the fact that you don’t know something is really destructive to team trust another important enabler, is to do everything you can to focus on outcomes.
This is what we’re trying to achieve, not you will do step one, step two, step 2A, step 2B, you know, but this is what we’re trying to achieve. Go forth and make it happen. Come back to me if you need help, if you want to bounce ideas, whatever. And then stick to it. Stick to your focus on the outcome, not the implementation.
And that way, people can feel invested in the work that they’re doing and they’re going to be more likely to say, You know, as I was going off and trying to do this, it occurred to me that if we made, you know, this change to what we were trying to accomplish, this is what would result, if you’re telling people step by step what to do, they’re never going to do that.
They’re going to be too afraid that they’re straying from your prescribed path and you have to continually reinforce that I’m not telling you the path, I’m telling you the destination and you do what you think is right and best to get to that destination.
And then the final thing is, spread the credit around. Too many people in leadership roles try to say, I did this. The people whose teams really respect them are more likely to say, we did this. That doesn’t have to take away from anyone’s sense of accomplishment but unless you single handedly did every single thing, it is not you that did it.
It is your team, the collective, that did it and that needs to be acknowledged. And when people see that they’re given free reign to achieve an objective, and they feel like they can come and have okay, let’s, push on this a little bit. Help me understand this a little bit more. If, they can have those conversations, then you’re creating an environment where it’s safe to experiment.
And the final point is, it is not an experiment if you know how it’s going to turn out, you were trying to test a hypothesis. That means sometimes, it’s not going to work and, so many organizations are so afraid of trying to distinguish between really good idea that didn’t work, but we learned something important, because we learned there was an assumption.
That we were making that we might not even have been conscious that we were making. But there’s a reason it didn’t work and that’s okay. Versus, it was just a really bad idea. And it takes true leadership to be able to distinguish those things and so many organizations, they just want to say, success good, fail bad.
And lump all of those constructive failures in with the really bad ideas and if you’ve got a culture like that, no one ever going to take a risk and I always tell people when they’re trying to set up innovation centers and innovation programs, the worst thing you can do is set a goal that 100 percent of the ideas pursued go into production.
Now, zero is bad.
But a hundred is not much better because you’re just not taking enough risk. If everything that you do succeeds, particularly succeeds on the first try, you’re not taking enough risk. Now, yes, we can talk about, you know, What is a failure versus a pivot? Or, you know, all of that but fundamentally, we have to be able to distinguish between bad ideas and constructive failures and constructive failures mean we’ve learned something important that is going to help us succeed on the next one.
Michael
Yes, and this is exactly one reason I talk a lot about everything is an experiment. Experiments don’t succeed or fail. They give us data that we can use to decide what to do next along with the experiments that hopefully a lot of them are failing, so that we know that we’re trying lots of things and learning a lot.
Along with this spreading the kudos and credit. I would add and collect all the blame so that your team knows that when things go south, which they’re going to do, especially for experimenting a lot, you’ve got their back you’re not going to put them under the bus into the volcano. You’re going to stand up and block whatever is coming down from whoever’s angry about that failure.
So it’s easy to understand how creating these cultures of where experimentation is celebrated, where everyone feels part of all the successes and protected from blame. The way that they learn and who they are is accounted for and encouraged. What’s the business value of creating these cultures?
Rebecca
Organization that does not innovate dies and If you don’t have a culture like that, you’re going to stifle the good ideas that your competitors are going to come up with, and they’re going to run you out of business. So, I see this very much as an existential issue for an organization. You have to allow lots of different ideas to come from and, you know, when I think about this from a technology perspective, it used to be, we didn’t have this thing called user centered design. And interfaces were horrendous. You just did what you had to do to get something to work and your employees and your customers all knew that they had to put up with it because there wasn’t a choice.
Now, something like TikTok or Twitter can completely upend what your customers are now going to demand of you, and even your employees are going to demand of you, because they’re not going to use some of those what I used to call user friendly interfaces. they, they’re just not going to put up with it.
You know, it’s hard enough to get and retain people, you have to respect their desires in terms of what kind of software they want to work with, etc. Given that rapidly changing environment that is changing in ways that you have no ability to control, Why would you want to stifle the source of creative ideas?
You want as many creative ideas as you can get so that you can keep ahead of the market and so that you can potentially be the one who comes out with the thing that now everybody’s scrambling because everybody loves this thing that you just did over there.
Michael
How do I, as an individual contributor, front line manager, leaders on up the chain to C suite and board of directors, how do I decide what, the balance is between getting the stuff done that we know works, even though it may not be ideal, doing all the innovation that’s going to give us the next thing, and all the stuff that’s in between those?
Rebecca
There is no one answer to that. But you do need to examine from multiple perspectives. What is the current state? You have to be very aware of What’s happening in the business cycle? What’s happening with your competitors? What’s happening with your customers? What’s happening in the world and assess, and what’s happening in your own organization?
If you already have a morale problem, to take one example, and you say, we just have to focus on next quarter, That’s probably not going to help the morale problem much, because what you’re effectively saying is, our short term performance is what’s most important here, and that’s not a good way to get somebody to say, Yay!
and so think about what you, where you are, and what you’re trying to achieve, you know, from a longer, term perspective and, then make those trade offs accordingly.
There’s usually some middle ground. Yeah, you can go all out for quarterly performance. You can go all out for innovation and experimentation.
And neither one of those two places are likely to be very good for very long. You want to be playing in the middle, so it’s more: how much of the innovation dial am I turning up? How much of the focus on operational performance? Much of it has to do with the industry. Obviously, you know, you’re going to spend more time if you are in a heavily regulated industry, worrying about the things you have to get right.
if you’re in a very fast moving field, you’re going to want to air more on the other side. but to me it all starts with an objective, realistic analysis of what is the current climate. In my organization, in my team, in my industry, in the world and once you have that, you can start to assess the risk and reward of being in, different places.
Michael
What for you, helps you know that you’re, you’ve got that balance about right, for now?
Rebecca
It really is a gut feel. You know, if you find yourself having to explain over and over and over again why were the dials set this way?
That’s probably an indication that there are a fair number of people who don’t agree with that, and then you want to assess. Why is it that they’re viewing this so different? Some of it is the way things are playing out isn’t going the way I expected it to.
I may have, you know, put a particular thing in motion, and I did that with a vision of where I thought it was going to go. If it starts to go that a way, and I thought we were going this a way, that’s another indication that, I missed something in that analysis either I missed a change that happened to the circumstances that didn’t try, that didn’t trigger me to say, wait a minute, I’ve got to reevaluate. I somehow missed the thing that now is sending it off sideways or maybe I just missed something completely when I did my analysis and so there, there is monitoring that you want to continually scan.
And are things going the way I expected them to? if not, is this a good thing that I want to double down on? Or is this a bad thing that I want to pull back from? or is it just a different thing? And sometimes it’s just a different thing and you have to decide, okay, should this now become that desired outcome?
Or do I want to move away from it just like I would move away from something that I thought was going in the wrong direction? Because different is not necessarily wrong, it might just be different.
Michael
Right, right. Different is a sign that you’re missing a piece of data and what that missing piece of data is may turn out to be unimportant and may not change anything about the direction that you believe things should go, it does tell you that there is something you may be missing that would probably be useful to understand, either because it’s going to change your trajectory, or it’ll confirm how the way you’re going.
Rebecca
Yep.
We so often make assumptions that we don’t even realize we are making. and that’s where a lot of problems come from, we think we know. but we don’t. The dreaded unknown unknowns.
Michael
This reminds me of a tool I remember one manager telling me that they used. That I found helpful in many different situations and the way that they maintained alignment on their team was they just, every week or so, they’d survey each person on the team and say, How are you feeling about things? And they had shown, through over and over, that they wanted people’s honest answers, not the, oh, everything’s fine answer that people might expect you want.
Because when everyone was happy with how things were going, that meant that the manager knew that they probably understood the picture of everything and had a good handle and that things were going in a good way, and any time, the more people were unhappy to any degree of where things were going, the more likely the manager was missing some piece of data that then they could go and find and search out.
I like this example because it’s a very, anyone can do this, it doesn’t take tech, it doesn’t take time, it can be five seconds every week, just message each of your people, each of your peers, each of your stakeholders, one to ten, how happy you are with things, how do you feel about things and the outsized amount of data and hopeful shifts can come out of
that.
Rebecca
The key though is making sure that people realize you do in fact want honest feedback. I, just, I recently got a survey, you know, the classic net promoter score style survey. You know and the guy actually said, and personally encouraged me to give him feedback, is that if I met his expectations, if he met my expectations, he wanted a 10.
And he wanted a 9 if there was something that he could have done because he didn’t meet my expectations. Well, what about all those other numbers? You know, and why isn’t meeting expectations, you know, a 7 or an 8? Because 10 is supposed to be a delight. You know, and it’s like, okay, but no, we’re going to, you know, we’re going to redo what these numbers mean.
And it’s, you know, people don’t like it when they feel like games are being played and that’s why it is so crucial to show that you were reacting to what you were seeing.
The follow up after things like that is so critical. Yes, we heard you.
And in my experience, people don’t feel like they should always get their way, they just want to know that they’ve been heard. And so, To say, okay. Yes, we heard this, is why we can’t do this thing right now, but this is what we’re going to try to do instead.
you know, and bear with us, or whatever. But it’s the acknowledging that they’ve been heard that is so critical.
Particularly when you have to say, thank you for your input, but no, we’re not going to do that, have to feel like they have been legitimately heard. Yes,
Michael
That the spreading credit, collecting blame, and modeling all these things we’re asking them to do, being up front of, I’m not happy about this situation, or something feels wrong here, I’m not sure what it is.
All the things that we’re asking to do, if we can show our people that. We’re doing that first. That makes them way more likely to trust that’s actually what we want them to do.
Rebecca
Exactly.
Michael
And for you, audience, you are unfortunately in cultures where this is not welcomed. You can still do it within your little space, even if outside that is completely unsafe to do this.
If you do this, your little space is probably going to start showing up as a shiny, shiny spot in your organization, and people are going to come flocking to you.
Rebecca
And it is amazing what, just the existence proof, something else is possible. What that can do for the morale of an organization. I’ve seen so many times people, you know, beating their head against the same wall and having some group break out and do something just a little bit different. The excitement is contagious.
Michael
It infects.
Rebecca
Yes.
Michael
In the best possible way.
These are all a lot of ways that we can help our people find their way through all the change, uncertainty, and overwhelm that seems to be what life is these days. What else do you suggest, or what are your favorite ways to do this?
Rebecca
Everybody needs to have some kind of support system. Maybe it’s family, maybe it’s friends, maybe it’s LinkedIn, maybe it’s, you know, your work, work colleagues, but identify the places where you really feel like you need support and make sure you’ve got some place that you can just be completely open and honest and that way you have a place to release your anxieties and to say those dark things that most people don’t.
Wouldn’t want to think that you would think and just to be able to relax for a little while. That support system is so critical and like I say, you know, it can be different things for different people and even for different topics, you know. I often get asked if I have a pet.
It’s no, but I have plants. And they are just as effective at communicating as a pet would be. But, you know, just sitting, staring at my plant is sometimes a way that I can get, myself back at peace.There are other things that require talking to my sister, or talking to one of my friends, or, you know.
But build a support system for yourself. Identify where and what kind of support you need, and make sure it’s available to you because everybody needs support every once in a while.
Michael
What is the best way Rebecca, for people who connect with you, if they’d like to learn more about the things we’ve talked about, have you come in and potentially have you helped them do all this great stuff with their team?
Rebecca
I’m on LinkedIn. I’m with the handle dr-rebecca-parsons. And that’s really the best way to get a hold of me.
Michael
Great. I’ll have that link in the show notes. What would you like to leave our audience with today, Rebecca?
Rebecca
I want to go back to the joy of learning, because I, do think it’s, one of the best ways to break out of a bad cycle to gain a new perspective on something that maybe you just haven’t been able to understand.
I think that exploration is, a way we can also reignite that excitement that we would have as kids when you were off in the woods exploring or, something like that. But I think trying to see new places, meet new people, expose yourself to new ideas, is the way that we keep evolving as individuals.
Michael
Love it. Thank you, Rebecca, for joining us today, and thank you, audience, for joining us today. Rebecca and I would love to know, what ignites your curiosity? Thanks, and have a great day.
Rebecca
Thanks, Michael.