Michael Hunter
Hello! Welcome to Uncommon Leadership. I’m Michael Hunter with Uncommon Teams.
Today, I’m talking with Kevin Wilkins.
Kevin is the founder and CEO of Trepwise, a strategy consulting firm whose mission is to unlock the potential of purpose driven organizations by aligning people, process, and vision.
Trepwise has been named one of the best places to work by CityBusiness for the last seven years. That’s impressive, Kevin. With over 35 years of experience in nonprofit, corporate, and private adventures, so pretty much everywhere, Kevin has built a company that teaches to put people at the center of their work.
Welcome, Kevin. When are you going to get into government work, or do you stay away from that?
Kevin Wilkins
I stay away from the government work, but we do do work with municipalities and the city. So that’s somewhat in the government space.
Michael
So you’re pretty much up and running.
Kevin
We’re versatile.
Michael
In your journey to seeing people as people and learning to leverage their unique gifts to best accomplish your goals, when did you first recognize this might be a valuable approach?
Kevin
Oh, that’s such a good question. When you talk about my 35 years of experience, which kind of ages me a bit, I would have to go back to when I was at Harvard Business School.
I took a class, accounting, as many people do in business school, yet at Harvard, they don’t really believe in textbooks, so everything was done by the case method. And I believe there are certain classes that maybe warrant a textbook, and that would be accounting. So I struggled a bit, like really trying to wrap myself around this class.
When it came to the final exam, I literally was walking into this final exam thinking to myself, it was one exam class, thinking to myself, “I actually may fail this. This will be an interesting experience. I have never failed a class before.” And I got the exam, which was again a case. I understood how to do the numbers, it was okay, but the thrust of it was they were asking about like accounting principles and what would you use to apply. My take was no matter what you did it was never going to work because everyone seemed to hate everyone else in the organization and it was bad communications and everyone was backstabbing everyone and they couldn’t hire into it etc etc.
So I wrote my exam, did the numbers, and then I wrote my exam basically on how the organizational dynamics were really unhealthy and nothing you would do would be effective until you change the culture.
I ended up doing super well on the exam, to my surprise. I’m like, “I wonder if they made a mistake.” They might come back and realize, “Oh, we gave you someone else’s grade.”
So I went to the professor and I just wanted to thank her and then clarify exactly that this was my exam. And she said to me, “Kevin, people tend to focus on the numbers all the time, but at the end of the day, it’s always about organizational behavior.”
Now that professor does not remember me, is my guess, as she had many, many students. And that was said to me thiry-some-odd years ago. So I’m pretty certain that she does not remember that experience. However, it stuck with me throughout my entire career.
This idea of always being about organizational behavior is a message that I took through my career.
When I was in financial services, financial services might not be the most user-friendly industry. Putting people in the center, well yeah, you put your investors in the center and you want to make sure people who are investing money in your organization that they’re gonna, you’re gonna do well.
So you clearly focus on people. But not necessarily the culture of the organization, per se. It was very much, very kind of single focus, goal-oriented cultures, oftentimes.
However, I did notice two things.
I noticed one organization that I worked for was about, “Get it done. I don’t care how many dead bodies you leave in the hallway to get it done, but get it done. And do it legally, and do it justly, and all that good stuff. But, you know, just get it done.”
I worked for other organizations, which would say, “Get it done. But here are the values that we have that we want you to employ. Like, be collaborative, bring people with you, make sure that your communication is strong, make sure people understand why we’re going where we’re going.”
Two distinct models, right? Clearly, I like model two much better than I like model one. No one likes leaving dead bodies in the hallway, and for those who do, there are cultures for you out there. I much prefer the inclusive culture, the culture of belonging.
So when I got to New Orleans, fast forward, and I was able to start my own company and do things in the community that I really wanted to do to, in a way to give back, I was really able to focus on this full force.
At the end of the day, it’s always about organizational behavior.
That was said to me 30 plus years ago, and that is the company that I’ve built.
Michael
How much are the people who come to you already in that second camp where they’re all about culture? Whether they have it yet or not, they know they want it. They want it to get better. Versus they’re in that first side where it’s just whatever it takes, we can get done, whatever the casualties or collateral damage, and then they’re talking to you for some reason that maybe they don’t quite understand or you don’t quite understand at first.
Kevin
I know the warning signs and it’s funny.
Some organizations say to us, “We don’t really have a culture,” to which I think, “Oh, you do. And it’s probably not very good. Let’s start there.”
We always do an intake of our clients just so we understand exactly like the issues that they’re saying they have and where they want to go. Oftentimes, people might minimize the people piece of it or the culture piece of it, because they’re focused more on, “This is our mission and we need to get these outcomes and people don’t seem to be accountable. And why aren’t people communicating better? Like we’re mission-driven. We all should be mission-driven.”
That’s important. Being mission-driven is important, and having a clear vision, that’s really important. We at Trepwise have a clear vision and mission statement, as you pointed out. But equally as important are the value statements that you have, and how you do the work you do.
Yes, organizations tend to focus on the work they do. Not necessarily how they do it.
So you begin to understand those dynamics a little bit better, and then we can introduce this idea of culture. There are some organizations that will be like, “Eh, people are people, it’s fine.” We will then need to walk people there.
I’m all about stakeholder engagement. And all organizations have a plethora of stakeholders, both internal and external. The most important stakeholders are the people you’re trying to serve through your purpose-driven organization. So let’s understand what they have to say. Then let’s talk to the team and understand what they have to say. Then let’s talk to leadership, understand what they have to say. And then let’s talk to funders and see what they have to say. Putting people in the center of everything we do. And then you come back with a set of learnings, which are going to suggest that, if you want more accountability, if you want more commitment, if you want more rigor, if you want more belonging, then let’s talk about a value system that might get you there, because funders want that. And the end user wants the best outcomes possible. If the best outcomes possible is a culture that’s going to lead you to those best outcomes, well, then they want that too.
So then you begin to build this model that people can begin to understand.
Cause if we’re people-centered, we’re not here to tell you what to do. We’re here to cocreate with you what you feel you need as an organization to be as effective as possible.
If they’re coming to an organization that’s human-centered, they may be more predisposed. Oftentimes people don’t fully understand what that means. We do a lot of education on top of a lot of strategy work.
Michael
When you’re with those companies that are starting out at the, “We want outcomes, people are producing those and beyond that, they’re irrelevant,” how do you help them start to understand that focusing on the people first is going to help the outcomes just sort of fall out of that?
Kevin
People have some inherent desires, and I believe one inherent desire is to be happy at your work.
People spend the most time of their given day in the week doing work. If you’re gonna be doing work, why not be happy? Why not be satisfied? Why not be growing? Why not be learning? It’s hard to argue against that. Leaders of organizations also want that. But might not understand exactly how you get that.
Sometimes people will say, “Well, our mission should be satisfying enough. That they get out of bed for the vision.” So Apple, for example, his vision is to reimagine the world or something along those lines. So people get out in the morning because they want to go and reimagine the world. Oh, and they do that by making computers and phones and all the like, but they want to reimagine the world.
So isn’t that enough just to have a vision that motivates people?
And then again, you begin to understand, yeah, vision is important. And clarity around mission is super important, but also understanding the needs of the organization internally of what’s going to make people happy, what’s going to make people satisfied.
Oftentimes we do a lot of help in terms of organizational design. I often say we need the right people in the right chairs doing the right jobs. That’s essential. And in order to have that, you need job descriptions, you need org structures, you need reporting mechanisms, you need professional development and the like.
People tend to hire for skill. So when you have a job posting and you bring someone in, you’re really focused on the skill.
I’m not going to minimize skill. Skill is important.
But there’s also this concept of fit. Are you the right fit for this organization? Or is this organization, can you help this organization continue to strengthen its culture?
I actually hire more for fit than for skill. You need to have the baseline skill, but I believe skills can be taught.
I believe fit is binary. Either you’re going to be a fit or you’re not going to be a fit.
If you have a really strong culture, and you add someone to that system, that culture, it’s going to change. And the hope is that it’s going to strengthen.
So, with every hire, you say, “Who is going to be the right fit?”
There are lots of people with skills, but it might not be the right fit.
I have a son right now who’s doing interviewing after college and he’s had some great successes and he’s had some great disappointments and he’s like, “I don’t understand. I know I could do that job. It just didn’t work out.” And I said, “Oftentimes it doesn’t work out because organizations might look at fit. And you might not be the right fit for that culture, and that might be a blessing.”
Some, these dead body in the hallway cultures, there are some organizations that like that, up or out, competitive. You either get promoted or you get fired. Those cultures exist. And if they’re interviewing someone who’s maybe more kind or more nurturing or more collaborative, that might not be the right fit for that culture, you know? So, sometimes when you don’t get the job offer, it might be a blessing in disguise.
When you’re looking for jobs, and we say this to organizations all the time, when you’re hiring, you gotta make sure you’re clear with your culture and you want a person who’s gonna value that culture and thrive in that culture.
If you have a team of people who are thriving, that’s gonna lead to the success of the organization. And those light bulbs tend to go off when they begin seeing this, and they begin hearing what these staff and the team really want, and you begin defining the values, and then you begin looking at the behaviors that will come from the values that you’re defining. Leadership tends to get excited about this.
Michael
How often when you go into an organization that tells you, “Nothing’s working, you got to get people motivated, we don’t know what’s going on,” do you find out actually there are teams in there that are doing outstanding and they just aren’t visible for some reason?
Kevin
Yeah, some organizations are like, “Either do the job or we’re firing people.”
Let me go back to Harvard business school.
When I was at Harvard Business School, I took organizational behavior, which was a standalone class. I remember the professor said once, “ If you fire someone, you fail. And if on this final exam, I give you your recommendation is to fire someone, you’re going to fail.”
That stuck with me cause organizations that fire people just because it’s just not working out. And I’m not suggesting it sometimes it doesn’t work out. Sometimes you have to separate from an individual at your firm. And I’m not minimizing that. That does happen.
But most often, if people aren’t doing well, there tends to be a reason.
Let’s understand the reason.
So, if an organization says, “You know what, we’re just, we’re weak, and our teams are weak.” Well, let’s understand what causes that weakness.
As I said to you earlier, you need a strong organizational culture that’s values-based. So do we have that?
You need an organizational design that makes sense. Do you have that?
Do you have job descriptions and role definitions for the people who are on this team?
Is there a clear hierarchy?
How are you at giving feedback? If people are struggling, do they know they’re struggling? What kind of communication systems do you have in place? What kind of performance management do you have in place?
What kind of career pathing do you have? Do you offer professional development so you can get people to be strong and not have to leave, but they can continue to grow within this organization?
Oftentimes we do that diagnostic and we see that there are maybe some strengths. They might have a values-based culture, which is great, but their communication is horrible. There’s no professional development and people are tripping over each other. Let’s work on that. Then let’s talk about what that looks like in terms of functioning at a high level.
In terms of your question around, are there hidden gems at times? And do people get lost in systems? Absolutely. Absolutely.
With any engagement with a nonprofit or foundation, we tend to start with the front line. The reason we start with the front line, which tend to be maybe a little bit more junior people who are doing the face of the organization to their constituents is because they know what’s going on and they see everything. They’re very open to talking about it. And we often see such strength at that level. If only the organization knew how to capitalize on that strength and how to grow that strength, that would be the win.
Talking to all the people at the organization, making sure the stakeholders are being represented, making sure people feel like they’re being heard, you uncover a whole lot of pockets of strength and then pockets of opportunity.
Michael
It sounds like if I were to summarize your approach, it’s very similar to where I tend to start just by asking, “What do you want that you don’t have? Great. What’s holding you back from having it?”
Kevin
Very fair. We have that same mindset. I call that like the curiosity mindset.
What’s working for you?
Why are you here?
What motivates you every single day?
Why are you showing up?
Is it just the paycheck? Is this a career? Is this a job? And oftentimes it can be just a job. That’s still important.
What’s going well? Where are the challenges?
Do you feel like your voice is being heard? If you were in charge, what would you say that needs to be done?
People have opinions and oftentimes the ideas are already there. You just need to uncover them and you need to create the space to have that kind of discussion.
Oftentimes, there are doers and there are thinkers, and oftentimes organizations that are reliant only on doers can struggle because the doers are, do what you’re told and do it well.
Well, doing what you’re told preempts the idea of them being able to think.
Oftentimes I’ll hear, “Thinkers can’t often implement. So if you’re just a thinker, you can’t get stuff done.”
I don’t believe in that.
I actually believe that every role in every organization requires thinking and doing.
And yes, you need to have purpose, and you need to have processes in place, and you need process charts to know how to do something consistently. I get that.
But you also want someone to be continually thinking, “Is this the best way of doing it?”
Because the higher you get, the more removed you get.
This front line understands what’s going on, and the top line is just saying, “do, do, do, do.” And they’re a little bit removed about how they should be doing more effectively.
You need to make sure you have those loops, which means you need to hire people who both think and do at all levels.
Michael
You need people close enough to the front line to realize that, so the direction we’re heading is a nest of fire ants. We might want to take a detour. And people somewhere along the line, maybe a little higher up again, that are recognizing, “We keep hitting nests of fire ants. What’s going on?”
Kevin
Yeah. Right.
Michael
“Is there an opportunity there?”
Kevin
Right.
Michael
“Or, do we just need to start building bridges or start flying our people around instead of trying to march them through these swamps,” or whatever the situation might be?
Kevin
Denial is not a strategy.
Denial is not a strategy and hope is not a strategy. You got to make sure you have a plan in place.
Michael
I generally agree with you that thinking and doing tends to always be required within any particular role.
I’ve also found some people who just love doing and aren’t that good or don’t enjoy thinking and vice versa.
If we can partner them together, then oftentimes we get way better results than if we had one person who is kind of splitting between thinking and doing. Especially if we try to force the doer to think or the thinker to do.
Because then they’re both in their wheelhouse doing what they love and are great at, and they’re able to collaborate together and use each other to do the stuff that they don’t want to do.
Kevin
That’s fair. That’s fair.
I think you’ve got clarity around roles and responsibilities. That really helps.
So maybe the front line, you do need doers.
If you’re going to be binary about it, and we have a hundred percent scale here, maybe the front line is more 70 percent doing 30 percent thinking. And as you go up, maybe the thinking’s a little bit greater, so 40 percent thinking, 60 percent doing, and then more senior is maybe 70 percent thinking, 30 percent doing.
But you want to make sure that every role has both components to it, and even just to understand why.
I often say, no matter where you sit in the organization, no matter what your mindset, people want, especially this new generation, which I’ll talk about in a sec, people want to understand how their effort directly impacts the outcome of the organization.
My seat is relevant. And the reason my seat is relevant is because it’s linked to this strategy and this strategy is linked to this goal. And this goal is linked to this outcome. Okay. That’s awesome. So even if you’re like the frontline doer, they want to understand why it’s relevant.
We have a generation right now, and I’ve got children who are in this generation, who are looking for a conscience in this world and want to work for organizations that have a conscience.
And not to be Pollyannish, and people understand how the capitalism works, but at the same time, you’re seeing people who will take less money if they feel they’re working for an organization that’s doing really well, doing good things in the community.
That’s super important.
If you’ve got a generation looking for a conscience, and they join organizations, then where they sit in the role that they have really needs to be clear in terms of how they’re making that impact they want to make.
When I say we focus on purpose-driven organizations, what I’m saying is we’re working with purpose-driven people.
These stakeholders in this younger generation really value that kind of purpose.
You’re seeing this in the corporate world too, the corporate social responsibility programs and the charity and philanthropy that these organizations are doing and that they’re promoting and they’re talking loudly about.
They might have always been doing it, but it was kind of an, “Oh, by the way….” Now they’re doing it because they want to make sure that the people they’re hiring are aligned with that because the people they’re hiring want that.
Are you seeing that as well?
Michael
I am.
In the tech world, where I tend to spend most of my time, it’s been clear for a long time now that yes, engineers are famously paid huge amounts of money. And what’s often much more important than how much they’re getting paid is, do they have the autonomy to work in the way that works best for them? Where do they get to work on stuff that they enjoy doing? How much do they get to choose what they work on and how they approach that? And absolutely, as you said, what is the impact of what they’re working on having on their customers, whether those are internal or external customers?
Kevin
Totally. Absolutely.
Michael
You sound like you really have it all together. What has most impacted your ability to do all this wonderful stuff the wonderful way that you do it?
Kevin
You’re very kind. I appreciate that feedback.
I love what we do because it causes joy. I think the world needs a little bit more joy.
When I say it brings joy, people love to achieve.
In fact, we’re living in a society of achievement, sometimes perhaps overachievement, but people do like to achieve.
People like to be part of something that might be bigger than they are.
I’ve had a long career, and I’ve had a blessed career, and I’m very fortunate for that. And with that long career, I’ve seen a whole lot. So I kind of know what works and what perhaps doesn’t work.
If I live in a world people want to achieve, but the what they do is important, but the how they do it is equally as important, that’s really something to understand.
Being people-centered, at the end of the day, I did institutional sales for a while, and I had more of a retail background, so I had more of the direct-to-consumer background, but I was asked to run institutional sales.
People were all confused when that happened to me back in my financial services days.
“Why are you doing institutional sales?”
And I would often say, “It’s not a building selling a building. It’s a human being working with a different human being.” Oftentimes, instead of working with one human being, you’re working with a team of decision makers.
Whatever that model might look like, it’s still humans working with humans.
If you can keep that mantra really clear, like you are working with a person, and that person has a different background, that person might have different aspirations, that person might have different outlooks, diverse voices are so important.
If what brings me joy is allowing those voices to be heard, giving people real purpose.
To work for a purpose is great if you can make a difference in this world, but people like to have their own purpose.
What is your personal mission statement? What is your personal vision for what you want to do? Let’s help you unlock that here. Such that when you’re doing a job, yeah, there might be things you don’t love, but you understand why you need to do it because it’s serving a greater purpose, and hopefully there’s a whole bunch of stuff you do love.
No one should be in a job where they hate everything they’re doing. That’s not a sustainable model.
Hopefully you find people for the right jobs and for the right roles, and then you can help them unlock the joy in their job.
Seeing that transformation, seeing organizations move from struggling to thriving, is such a gift.
It’s not like they have to do a series of negative things to get from struggling to thriving, because oftentimes that’s a mindset.
We have a much more of an optimistic mindset.
No. No. Go from struggling to thriving. Let’s find the joy in the work.
And that resonates.
That resonates with people.
They’re like, yeah, “I kind of do want to be happy.”
It’s almost like missing the point.
We get up every morning and we get dressed and we do something for 10 hours a day, plus or minus. Probably should enjoy it. That’s a big portion of your waking hours. You probably should be happy.
Sometimes organizations miss the point.
You need to be happy and you need to make sure you’re fostering that type of environment where people feel satisfied.
I do not believe that making a lot of money means that you sacrifice happiness.
There are some people out there like, survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest, for me to make the most money, survival of the fittest. Well, how many rich people do you know who are unhappy? So again, missing the point along the way, you can still make money.
I’m not suggesting I’m all about capitalism. You can make money and you can experience the joy along the way as well.
If you bring people with you and you’re all making more money, if that’s a key factor for what drives your satisfaction, that’s great. Let’s make sure they’re doing it in a way that causes them to feel fulfilled.
Because at the end of the day, you get a paycheck, but if you’re not feeling fulfilled, that’s what leads to personal dissatisfaction or personal unhappiness.
How many people who do you meet that say, how many lawyers do you meet who are like senior partners at these big law firms doing so well and they’re miserable because of the number of hours they have to work and how they have to clock and have to have to find new business and it’s all such a pressure cooker?
Does it have to be that way? Can we reimagine different industries in terms of what causes satisfaction?
I’m not saying all law firms are that way by any means. I know law firms that are quite different, that embody a human-centered approach.
But overall as an industry, we all know some unhappy lawyers, right?
There are ways of making sure you can unlock the joy in your job.
Michael
If there’s one thing to change to start unlocking more joy in our jobs, where would you suggest we start?
Kevin
First word that comes to mind is values.
It’s ensuring that you have the right value system within an organization that people can really rally around.
And we all have our both.
We all have our personal value system. We have our values radar around what we, what is good and what’s not good. And what our ethical frameworks are that we all operate.
But as individuals, that’s one way of operating. Organizations are the same way.
Organizations need to have a value system. They need a set of beliefs that people can rally around or that allow them to attract the right people.
Oftentimes this whole fit, like this whole skill and fit framework, they focus so much on skill, they forget about fit. Oftentimes is a problem for organizations to get over.
If you’re going to really begin unlocking joy, let’s make sure that we have a value system that we can all rally around, that we can all feel good about.
Let’s make sure that as an organization, we have a set of beliefs that resonate with all the stakeholders that are involved, because the more you can build that will bring in connectivity.
Belonging is such a word right now. Everyone wants to be, feel like they belong in whatever community that they are in.
And that is, I agree, that is so important.
But what does that mean?
And how do we ensure that we’re building those communities where people do feel like they belong? And that we can welcome diverse voices, diverse personas, diverse backgrounds, to allow them all to belong within this community?
Well, you needed to find the community.
So as you’re talking about an organization as a community of people coming together to do something together, let’s make sure the rules of engagement are really clear.
Let’s make sure what we want to do together is really clear.
I mean, it’s not rocket science.
Let’s make sure we have a vision of where we’re going. Let’s make sure that the mission is crisp. Let’s make sure that we all can align in some way, shape, or form with this value system. Let’s make sure that these beliefs are real and that they resonate. Let’s make sure that behaviors and words are aligned.
How often do we see senior management saying one thing and doing another? So how do we make sure that they are totally aligned?
How can we look up and feel good about it? How can we look to our sides and feel good about it? How can we look down and feel good about it?
As wherever we sit within an organization.
If you get that system right, if you can get that system within an organization right, you can do gangbusters. The sky is the limit.
We also do a lot of systems work at Trepwise, so what we do is we go into communities and say, “Okay, we need more affordable housing, or the cultural economy needs to thrive for everyone involved, or we need a youth master plan that’s going to really help impact as many youth as possible to get them on career paths that allow for great opportunity. That we can help all people thrive within this community.”
Well, that’s called systems work.
How do you build the system to allow for that?
What we do is we bring organizations around the table because organizations need to then work with each other. If you think about that, the complexity of that, community values, but let me define this community based on a system.
So how can organizations work effectively with each other, just like humans work effectively with each other within these organizations?
You can take this framing that I’m talking about in terms of culture and belonging and values and mission and vision and roles and responsibilities clarity, you can take that from an organizational level and you can bring it to a systems level.
The reason we’ve been so successful with our systems work is because we’re able to incorporate and include a diverse set of organizations that might not be talking to each other, but all have a voice and all play a role in the show.
Let’s make sure that we can bring them all together and using beliefs, using values, using visioning that allow people to really work better together.
Because as I said, in institutional sales, it’s not a building versus a building. It’s not one building talking to another building.
Same applies in this, in this impact work that we do.
It’s not an organization talking to an organization. You’ve got executive directors trying to work across lines with each other to achieve an outcome.
And they can each contribute something really meaningfully to achieve that outcome.
How can we allow for those organizations to work as efficiently, as effectively as possible?
Michael
We’ve covered a lot already today. What else should I ask you?
Kevin
We have covered a whole lot. I’ve talked a lot about vision and mission and values and culture.
Planning is super important.
I said earlier, hope is not a strategy.
I often say a purpose without a plan is just hope.
And hope is not a strategy.
You might have a clear purpose and you might be building a fantastic culture, but you absolutely need a plan to ensure that you’re going to achieve the outcomes and the impact that you want to achieve.
The best idea, if poorly implemented, gets you nothing.
A really good idea flawlessly implemented can get you everything.
At the end of the day, it’s about implementation. So let’s make sure that organizations have a real clear plan.
I’m a big believer in clarity of plans.
We don’t do strategic plans for people who put that plan on the shelf.
We only do, and we make this really clear with every client we talk to, we only build plans that are going to be actionable and that’s going to allow you to achieve the goals you want to achieve if properly implemented.
I also call a plan a fundable asset. So why is planning important is one question we could talk about.
One reason that planning is important is because these nonprofits and these foundations are looking for funding. Where can they apply dollars to have the biggest impact?
If you have a plan that’s really thoughtful and really rigorous and really achievable, well that’s a fundable asset.
They can go to many funders and say, “Look at our fundable asset and look at our ability to get things done.”
And yes, as an organization, we have organizational effectiveness. We are really good. We’re really solid. We’ve got a great culture. We’ve got great org[anizational] design. We’ve got great roles and responsibilities. We hire super well. We’ve got goals that we have set. We’ve got strategic pillars that we know what we’re doing. We’ve aligned people around these strategies and people, no matter where they sit in the organization, they know how they can impact the outcome that they’re trying to achieve.
That’s all due to planning.
The best plans, poorly implemented, don’t get you anything. But a really good plan with flawless execution can get you everything.
So yes, that’s good to have a purpose and it’s good to feel good about what we do. But that alone is not going to get you to where you want to get to.
That’s the bare minimum.
Making sure the organization’s as strong as possible with a very clear plan to achieve what you want to achieve is exactly where you want to be.
Michael
If purpose without a plan is hope, is plan without purpose also just hope or is it something else that’s as fruitless or as not actionable?
Kevin
I love you, man. This is great. That is such a great question.
If purpose without a plan is just hope, is a plan without purpose, what is that?
There’s always a purpose. There’s always a purpose.
That purpose might be to make as much money as possible or to exploit others for our gain.
There’s always a purpose.
It’s either stated or not stated.
So, I would argue a plan with no purpose is, it could be really confusing.
And that often makes people question, “Why am I doing what I’m doing? What exactly am I being held accountable for?” Because if you don’t have a purpose, then we need other frameworks of accountability.
Why are we showing up every day? What’s the purpose? Why am I doing what I’m doing?
Or I’m making a bunch of money doing it. Okay. That gets old fast though.
And especially with this generation that’s coming into the workforce right now, and those that are in the workforce in their late twenties, early thirties, they want clarity around the purpose. And the purpose isn’t just making as much money as possible for many people.
For some people that might be a purpose, but for the majority of this generation, they’re really looking for meaning. Which I think is fantastic.
It goes back to my, “Don’t miss the point.”
You gotta be happy with your day-to-day life. And oftentimes people are looking for meaning and trying to do something good in the world.
Michael
You have a lovely toolkit to share with our listeners, our watchers. Tell us all about it, please.
Kevin
Toolkits. So there’s a lot of work being done in shared leadership of organizations. And instead of having one leader, there are organizations that might have multiple leaders doing different roles. And we’ve got toolkits around accountability to allow people to really understand how you can build a shared leadership model.
We’re seeing a lot of that in the nonprofit space, where people are bringing in core strengths and are working as a team to run an organization versus as an individual.
We also have a culture toolkit that allows people to really build their culture that they want to achieve, with a checklist of exactly how you do what you do. So that would include values and beliefs and a clear vision statement and a clear mission statement and clear performance management. Really effective.
We have an operational audit kit. How do you do operations? How do you ensure that what you’re doing is replicable and consistent, such that when someone shows up in your organization, they have a very similar experience based on how you do what you do?
Being able to document processes, being able to do SOPs, standard operating procedures, making sure things are really well documented. We have a toolkit to help organizations do that.
And then we have this offering called Solutions Lab. Solutions Lab is when an organization is dealing with an issue. I’ll go back to culture. Our culture seems to be screwy, there is no accountability. How can you help us build an organization that is accountable? Okay, that’s a pretty clear question that needs to be answered. What’s the optimal sales model to deliver against this segment? Okay, that’s interesting. This strategic pillar doesn’t seem to be working well. Can you help us define what is wrong with this?
I call that surgical help. We have an offering called Solutions Lab where you come to us with a problem, we have a really efficient and effective way of solving this problem working with you that can be done with some discovery. Let’s learn about this problem. Let’s bring together all the people in the room. That’s associated with this challenge. And let’s come up with let’s walk out 5 hours later with a solution. With the right inputs and the right facilitation processes, we’ve had a lot of success with Solutions Lab.
Michael
If people would like to talk with you and learn more about building, defining their values, building their culture, implementing some of these toolkits that you have, what’s the best way for them to get in contact with you?
Kevin
So I encourage everyone to go to trepwise.com just to get a feel of who we are and what we do. Our narrative is really clear. If you go to the website, you’ll get a real sense of who we are.
We just don’t talk the talk. We walk it.
So you’re going to see strong mission statement.
You’re going to see a very clear vision statement.
You’re going to see a set of values that are really well defined.
You’re going to see beliefs that are really clear, and you’re going to see the type of organizations we’ve worked with and what we’ve been able to do.
So that’s one thing, just to get a grounding of who we are, because we are somewhat unique in the consulting space.
You can reach out to me directly, kevin@trepwise.com. And I’d be happy to meet with anyone and talk to anyone about some of the challenges that they’re having.
I have an amazing team of advisors and leaders in the community who really do fantastic work and really passionate about what they do. Anyone on my team would be great people to connect with as well.
Feel free to check us out on Facebook and on LinkedIn to get a better understanding kind of who we are and what our profiles are.
Michael
Great. I’ll have all those links in the show notes.
Kevin
I appreciate that. Thank you.
Michael
What would you like to leave our audience with today, Kevin?
Kevin
Oh, man.
If there’s one message you hear from me today, you need to be happy with what you do every single day.
You need to experience the joy in your life.
There’s so many challenges in the world right now. Control what you can control. Make choices that make sense for who you are in your value system.
I hope that everyone can find an organization or a purpose that really aligns with who they are and can enjoy a culture that makes them feel like they can thrive in the space they choose to be in.
We all deserve to thrive, and we all deserve to have joy, and you can do that in your workspace every single day.
So go in tomorrow and ask yourself, “Do we have clear values? Is that a thing? And do we have a core belief system? Is that a thing? And how is performance management here? How’s feedback here?”
There’ll be some areas where you’re great, and there’ll be other areas where, maybe we can improve on feedback.
What’s going to help maximize joy in your world as you think about your professional demeanor?
That’s the key question that we all should be asking ourselves every day.
There is no organization that’s perfect, let me be clear.
But you want to be part of organizations who strive for the joy of the people who work there, the joy of the people who they work with, the joy of the people who they are trying to serve.
If you can keep that simple mindset, then you’ll be able to leave like a really fulfilled experience.
Michael
Thank you, Kevin, for a very fulfilling conversation.
Kevin
I enjoyed it. Thank you so much for having me here today. It was really, really, I enjoyed speaking with you.
Michael
Right back at you.
And audience, please let Kevin and I know what’s holding you back from having maximum joy and fulfillment in every part of your life. We’d love to hear it.
Thanks and have a great day.
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