TLDR;
Have things not been working out for you lately? Like you’re stuck, and you know deep down that something needs to shift?
If you’re here, give yourself a pat on the back because you’ve already taken the first step to embracing change.
First off, I’d like to welcome you to this episode of the Uncommon Leadership Podcast, where I interview Tamar Stolz, a leadership and business strategy coach, and deliberate on the importance of bringing one’s authentic self to everything they do.
Identifying your strengths can help you reframe setbacks, overcome self-doubt, and self-comparisons. It can also help you ditch the one-size-fits-all approach and create strategies that work for you!
Tamar addresses these topics head-on, sharing her powerful personal experiences with overcoming self-doubt. She also introduces her signature “ALIGN” framework, which focuses on strategic alignment and can help you navigate through uncertainty.
But it all starts with self-awareness. Change begins when you acknowledge and step into your authentic self.
To close, I’d like to leave you with this timeless wisdom: Be yourself. Everyone else is taken.
If you’re ready to make that change and build a path that’s truly yours, this episode provides the tools and frameworks you need to get started.
And if you still need help, we’re just one text away!
Get in touch with the speakers:
Tamar Stolz: contact@tamarstolz.com
Michael Hunter: https://uncommonteams.com/work-with-me/
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Watch the Uncommon Leadership Podcast:
Get notified on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp9vaDKz5TI7gaWKLc801Dw
Prefer audio? Stream here:
Apple-
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/uncommon-leadership/id1654637165
Spotify-
https://open.spotify.com/show/2BkXGceaZgVWxGQCXcrmgj
Presented By: Uncommon Change
Transcript:
Michael Hunter
Whether you want more innovation, more easily, you are feeling burnt out or overwhelmed, or you simply know that something isn’t quite the way you know it can be. You are not alone. I hear the same from leaders every day on Uncommon Leadership, we explore aligning personal fulfillment with business success, creating authentic teams, and cultivating the resilience necessary to move beyond simply surviving today’s challenges into thriving.
I’m Michael Hunter, and today we’ll uncover fresh insights into what it means to lead with resilience, adaptability, and ease. Joining me today is Tamar Stolz. As a leadership and business strategy coach, Tamar empowers small business owners to go from relying on one-size-fits-all solutions to becoming trailblazers who trust their instincts and create personalized paths to success.
As the founder of UXpressed and OwnTheU, Tamar empowers leaders to own their expertise, implement customized strategies, and achieve scalable growth by believing in themselves. Everything that we do all the time here on this podcast. Tamar is also the host of the Unstoppable Product Pioneer podcast, where she explores the importance of strategic alignment between big-picture business vision and product strategy execution.
Welcome Tamar.
Tamar Stolz
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.
Michael
I have so been looking forward to this conversation pretty much ever since I heard the first episode of your podcast and said, I’m going to invite her on.
Tamar
It’s a pleasure to be here. I feel bad because I don’t know what’s going on with my lighting. Maybe I should just take off my glasses. Let’s try that. I’m totally blind, so like, I cannot really, I can’t see so well, but hopefully you can see me. And I know it’s annoying when people are watching, and the person just has this awful glare.
So, I mean, it’s the best I can to, talk without my glasses. If I find like it’s getting in the way, then we’ll put them back on. Nice to meet you all.
Michael
Just do that, and I’m blind without my glasses too, so I feel for you. I appreciate your sacrifice.
Tamar
Yeah. All good. I’m excited.
Michael
When did you first recognize that integrating your whole selves, bringing that into everything that you do might be a valuable approach?
Tamar
Yeah, that’s a really, that’s a really great question. So, bringing my whole self, so I don’t know how far back you want me to go. You know, when you say bringing your whole self, right? So in terms of, you know, professionally, are we, are you focusing like specifically professionally, or do you just mean like showing up in general?
Michael
Yeah. In general, whether it was work or in a different part of your life. When did you first recognize that?
Tamar
Yeah, so, okay. So I definitely have to give credit where it’s due. And I would say it really started with the home that I grew up in. I grew up in an entrepreneurial family, and I’m the oldest in my family, the oldest of four kids.
And my parents really raised us to be, I don’t know what the word is in, in terms of like, owning our skills, our abilities. But, they really raised each and every one of us with tapping into who we were. You know, we were all different. We all had our own set of skills and challenges.
And I would say both my parents really stressed the importance of getting to know ourselves, getting to know our skills, our challenges, you know, what tools we needed to be able to grow and, you know, just developed to the best that we could. So I would say really it started at home with the understanding of, you know, I am unique, I am special. Who am I? And it’s something I’m very grateful for because I think the older I get, the more I realize how unique that really was to grow up in an environment that was accepting and supportive of like, me and my siblings all being different. So I would say that, you know, first off, I got that foundation at home for sure.
I would say, as I got older, there were definitely times in school where I struggled tremendously with it. I, naturally, I’m a people pleaser, and so it’s usually hard. I’ve found it hard and had to develop strategies to be able to use that, that I would say, tool of people pleasing in the right way, because it can definitely interfere with life if it’s not used properly.
So it’s something that I’ve definitely struggled with, in terms of doing what’s best for me, even when everyone else is not doing it, even when other people mock it or put it down. Doing what’s best for me and feeling confident and showing up as myself has probably always been a struggle for me.
Because I think, probably like many people who are listening, you probably have felt at some point, you know, what is wrong with me? Like, why am I the weird one here? What am I doing here? Like, something’s really wrong with me. And like, I can’t tell you how many times I felt like that. And I could probably pinpoint, you know, all the big milestones, whether it was elementary school, high school, college, you know, getting married, now having children, raising my own family, like, at different points in life, it’s presented itself differently, but I would say it’s definitely been a very common theme and pattern for me and just getting to know myself in different stages of life.
This is like a very, I feel like I’m going off on tangent, so you can bring me back if I’m getting lost here, but just trying to keep the question at focus here.
So, I would say when, did I actually, when did I truly realize it? I think there were different parts, different points in life where I realized it in different ways. Like I think that, you know, getting to know myself, was, is still a journey. Like I learn things about myself every single day.
So I don’t think I could say that. Like I feel like that’s just a learning process for me. In terms of building up the confidence to show up, like when did that switch actually happen? I think it happened, well, it for sure happened for me in high school. It was my junior year. I was elected the student council president, and it was something that was really good for me, because it gave me the opportunity to utilize my leadership skills. But I definitely struggled academically. I shouldn’t say I struggled because I got the grades most people wanted, but my group of friends were extremely competitive, and they were super academic.
And so like, they were always getting the a hundred and fives and I was always just making it at like the 95. So like everyone would roll their eyes when they were like, well, are you happy? And I would say no, but I never wanted to say what I got because it was a 95, which was incredible, except all my friends had a hundred and fives.
So I did fine academically, but for my own ego, like it was always very hard. And so stepping up as the student council president was really my first opportunity to own myself and to show up as myself and to be myself. And to not have to feel like I was competing, like in a space that was really a waste of time, but that wasn’t bringing out the best in me.
And that’s, I think, really when I realized, okay, Tamar, like, you are like, you have your own unique set of skills and abilities and it doesn’t matter if everyone else is doing something different. You have something unique to bring to the table, and you should tap into it. That’s definitely when I realized it at first.
But that’s not to say that there have been hundreds of times since then where I’ve been like, what is wrong with me? Why am I the always, you know, the one that feels like I am sticking out here, like. Everyone here thinks I’m crazy, but I think that as I got older and as I, you know, I worked in corporate for five years and now I’ve launched my own business a few months ago.
I think as each, you know, milestone comes and each, you know, bigger, like points in life, as I hit those bigger points, I think that, what I’m coming to realize is that, I’ve been pretty, like, I’ve been successful in the things that I do, even when all odds were against me. And even when people tell me like, You’re crazy.
Like, what’s wrong with you? Like, yeah, good luck. You’re never gonna, you know, be able to succeed. And so I think going back to the foundation that I got at home and just building on that and understanding like, okay, like if I believe this is, that what I’m doing is the right thing to do and that this is what’s best for me and for my family, and it aligns with who I am and my core values, then I’m gonna do it and I’m gonna believe in that and I’m gonna, you know, put myself all in. And even when I don’t get the results that I want, because that happens all the time, I still consider it a success that I was able to show up in the best possible way that I could and everyone else could think it’s crazy, but I’ve been, you know, successful and continue to be successful.
So I think those results have shown me that, like I, it’s okay to step into my abilities, you know, and not wait for everyone else’s approval. Because ultimately what matters is that you believe in yourself, and the more that you believe in yourself and you tap into yourself, the more you can show up as yourself.
Michael
I hundred percent agree that that’s a journey that never finishes. Definitely for myself, not for anyone else I’ve ever met either. The rule of three says there’s at least three people out there who get there. They got it, and they never doubt themselves again. I would love to meet them and discover their secret.
And what matters is not all the times that we go back to doubting ourselves. It’s all the times that we come back to remembering the value that we bring just because we’re alive and are being ourselves to the whatever extent we can in that moment, which may be a little or maybe a lot.
What helps you keep finding that strength to fall down, like, oops, and get back up and keep going?
Tamar
Yeah, that’s a really great question. So, you said, ‘what’? I’m, gonna, I’m gonna change it a little bit to say ‘who’, because that’s the first thing that popped into my head. I think it’s really important to have a support system around you, that looks different for everyone. For me, my husband, my parents, my children, like my siblings, extended family, I am so fortunate to have them as a support system, in place to be able to cheer me on and be there for me when the falls do happen and the fails do occur because they do and they do all the time. And if anybody here thinks that’s listening thinks that you know, oh, it’s not gonna happen to them, it’s gonna happen to you ’cause you’re a human being.
And the setbacks and the fails are, tremendous opportunities. That’s definitely something I’ve learned. And I think that’s probably like a good segue into the, what keeps me going is exactly that, is that every time, I’ve had a disappointing situation, an outcome wasn’t what I was hoping for the results didn’t come in. like you name it, I’ve been through it probably.
I think, like almost every tim,e and there were times I’ve had like a negative perspective on it, and so I didn’t necessarily gain from or become stronger from it as much as I could have. But I think that most of the time when I can identify like, this is gonna be a setback and this is gonna be really difficult, or this is really frustrating and this is gonna push me back another, you know, X amount of time, or, you know, whatever it is, it doesn’t go the right way, first of all, to understand that I believe that everything, you know, happens for a reason.
I believe that, you know, for me it like, you know, each person in their own like way, religion, spirituality, whatever it is, for me in terms of like my spirituality, like I believe that there’s a God that orchestrates, you know, what goes on. And, the right thing is gonna happen to me at the right time.
And so as much as those moments are really painful and really, really hard, having the right people in place to be able to support me, to help me reframe, my mindset. To approach the setback or the fall or the fail as, this is first acknowledging it, this is really frustrating. This is really painful. This is really hard. This is really challenging and this really stinks. Reframing to say, okay, one second. Like, there’s a reason that this happened. There’s a plan here, and somehow this fits into the plan, and it’s gonna keep me going. It’s gonna make me stronger. It’s gonna position things to be better for me.
I don’t know why, and I have to accept that I don’t know why and I don’t know what the answers are, but for whatever reason, this is the best thing for me at this time. So, how can I make the best out of this situation? And so trying to have that mindset and have the right people in place to remind me of that mindset, I think, is what’s really been able to keep me going.
Michael
For people who can’t quite imagine reframing these uncomfortable or even horrible situations, do you have an example you can give us of what happened and how you reframed it into that positive learning?
Tamar
Yeah. Let me think of a good example of a, hold on, let me think. Just because I wanna, you know, on a public format, I don’t wanna, I wanna make sure to just, you know, protect everyone and everything’s privacy.
Yeah. So I invested in a few like courses, when it was like, when I was at the point of trying to figure out, like my business strategy and trying to figure out like, okay, I’m going off on my own now. Like, what do I do? Where do I go? There was a few programs that I purchased that I invested a lot of time and money into, and there was one specific program that I was like super excited about that I really was hoping was gonna be the answer. And really, I mean, I really, I invested a lot of emotional energy into it, thinking that was the answer. And, everyone that was taking part in the program at the same time as I was, like seeing results.
And I wasn’t. Like, it was pretty black and white. Like I was the one that was not getting the results. I wasn’t getting, you know, I wasn’t getting the engagement scores in my posts, and I wasn’t getting the visibility and my connections were less. Like, everything was like kind of less than, and I; it was just really rough.
I was like, What is wrong with me? Like, why can’t I do this? Like, everyone else in this group seems to be able to figure it out. Why can’t I? And, you know, this specific situation, the reason I chose this one is because, this was a really big deal for me. It was a very high-ticket program.
It was something that I like, just invested a lot in showing up. I gave up a lot of time, canceled a lot of appointments, got babysitters for my kids. Like, I really did a lot to be able to put myself all into the program, thinking like, okay, it’s worth it. It’s worth the money. It’s worth the time. It’s worth my sacrifices and my investments because it’s gonna get me the result.
It’s guaranteeing everyone else, and you know, whatever. And it didn’t, and it didn’t. And it was really hard and it was really frustrating. And, at that moment, I was like, you know what? Like if I can’t do it, if I can’t accomplish this successfully, I can’t follow this step-by-step process that they’re teaching everyone, that everyone else, everyone else seems to be successfully accomplishing. Now, I think it’s important to plug in that that was just my perspective. It’s not true. Like I had to tell myself like, that is not true. What you’re seeing, what you’re hearing, it’s everyone in this room is not succeeding except for you. It’s not true.
But I didn’t believe it. But that is the fact, like what you see on social media, what you hear from other people. Like, just remember like, what you see is not always what’s going on behind closed doors. But, I was definitely in a mindset of, I’m a failure. I’m the only one that can’t do this; everyone else around me can.
Maybe it’s because of my age, maybe it’s because of my lack, you know, of, I don’t know what, okay. I had all my limiting beliefs. I had all my false beliefs in my head screaming really, really loudly. Like Tamar, you just are not made for this. You’re not cut out for this. Just go back to being a mommy ,and like, what are you doing?
It was a really, really tough time. And so it was at that moment that, kind of what you’re explaining, where someone’s like, feels that there’s just no more hope. How am I gonna do this? Like, I don’t know how I could even like, reframe this mindset. It was at that moment that I was like, okay, so if I give up, what is that gonna cost me?
And it sounds funny, but like when you sit down and you say like, okay. So I’m not cut out for this, so what am I gonna do? So what’s all the time, money, energy, investments, and sacrifices that I’ve made to get to this point? They were all for nothing? They were all just a waste of time? I don’t know, like, I had to ask myself.
And I remember saying like, yeah, yeah, mm-hmm. It’s been, it’s just been a total waste of my time. I never should have done this. I should have just been a mommy. Like I’m supposed to be my two kids. They need me. And I, shouldn’t have done this. And I was like, Tamar, like you’re not gonna get any farther by talking like this, by saying this.
Like, ultimately, I wanna be the best person I can be. And I think for everyone listening, like if you think of yourself in a time where you were like just done, like all hope out the window, this is not for me. I’m not doing this. Depressed, totally defeated. Like, just sit down for a moment and say, and like validate yourself and just talk out loud.
You’re right, you’re right. You’re a total fail. You’re a total fail. You wasted all your time, all your energy. You never should have done this in the first place. And you might find that you have nothing to respond to that voice, because that’s what I found. I was like, okay, fine, fine. Okay. It wasn’t a waste, but then what was it?
But then suddenly I’m like having a conversation with myself, right? It’s like, okay, fine, fine. Okay. You’re right. It wasn’t a fail. It wasn’t a waste. What has worked? Has anything worked? Okay? Maybe one or two things, but there’s like a hundred million things that haven’t worked out. Okay? But were there one or two things that did?
Okay, so if I stop doing those two things, what does that cost me? And starting to like unravel and talk to the limiting beliefs that I had in my head, is when I very slowly started to move and shift into the mindset that I was talking about before. Now, you have to have the right people in place. There was not a chance I could have done it by myself.
That’s number one, not a chance. Number two, understanding what I would’ve lost by not continuing was very powerful for me. Now. Again, worked for me, might not work for everyone. And this is one of the, this specific situation that happened to me was actually my turning point in figuring out what it is that I truly want to do and how I really wanna help people and show up and it was, it’s exactly in, in this way of understanding that, what I had been doing up until that point was taking all these self-appointed gurus and all the experts and everyone else who, you know, was selling courses and programs and coaching, whatever it was, I was basically just trying to take their solution and like copy and paste it into my life.
And the reason I wasn’t getting results is because that’s just not gonna work. A solution that worked for someone else’s business is not necessarily gonna work for mine. And it’s not that those courses are bad. Not at all. I gained a tremendous amount of tools and helpful things from most of them.
But I had to then figure out, Tamar, like for you and for your situation, how can I take what I’ve learned and now apply it to me? And I was missing that point. And so that’s why I wasn’t being successful. And so that’s when I, that’s when the switch in my mind was like, oh my goodness. Because I had this horrible situation, because I felt like an absolute loser, and I was ready to quit and give up, and leave everything behind.
Because of this, this was actually, this planted the seeds, this was the turning point in my career where I realized what I really wanna be doing. And so, I am no expert. I’m not here to say that, like the toughest point, you know, that you’re referring to, like, I’m not here to say that’s gonna be it for you, ’cause again, I’m not a believer in one size fits all strategies at all. That’s like all the work that I do. Right. Owning yourself, making it your own. But I think it’s important to remember that number one, everyone has that point in their life at some point, where they feel like they’re done.
Life stinks. Everyone’s out to get them. They’re not cut out for whatever it is that they’re doing, and they might as well just stop. So when you feel like you’re having that conversation in your head, stop and say, You’re right. I should just stop. I should just stop and talk to that voice and then see what response you have ,and you challenge me.
Like you could totally challenge me. Like I; it could be that doesn’t work for everyone. I’m not sure. Like, again, this is my experience. This is what I like, this is when you said, you know, to think of an example, like that’s just the one that I felt like probably could resonate with most people. But I totally would love to hear you like, come, come, back and say like, okay, no, but that doesn’t, you know, that wouldn’t work. You’re like, I’d love to hear, you know, you fight back on it.
Michael
Good. I absolutely agree that that’s not gonna work for everyone, ’cause nothing works for everyone except there’s three things that work for everything, the rule of three says. Thank you for all of the; that detailed example, and especially for giving us all of the emotions and inner talk, ’cause that’s all the things that we don’t get from other people most of the time. We see all the things that they choose to show us. Like you were saying, you were seeing all the people celebrating all the things that did work for them. You don’t know how many posts and emails and whatever they did and sent, that got nothing or got active rejections.
People mostly don’t celebrate those things.
And the fortitude you showed for moving from fighting against all those naysaying voices and embracing them, like, yep. Okay, so what if this was all a waste of time and I spent all this money, time, investment?
For this that I could have been spending on my kids, family, being outside. What if that just, I learned nothing? And then of course, you showed up with, well, yeah, it wasn’t really, I got nothing. There’s actually these couple things. That you are able to recognize only because you’re able to also accept all of the naysayers that was going on.
When we push against a wall, the wall doesn’t move and neither do we, but when we embrace the wall, we might find there’s a door there or the wall doesn’t really go all the way to the end of the earth. Or, wall’s actually holding up to our ankles and we can step over it pretty easily.
This example is also great for this show because you’re talking about all this in terms of, you figuring out what to focus on in your business. And this all easily translates to, “Why does Michael never get comments on my code reviews? And I always get hundreds of comments back from people. Michael must be a better code reviewer than I am”.
“Why does every time Tamar speaks up in a meeting, everyone’s like, Woohoo, that’s a great idea. And every time I speak up in a meeting, I get shut down. I was just not know what I’m doing”. Unless that are the case, there’s always other things going on. It may also be that I have no idea what I’m doing.
That’s probably not why I am, why I feel I’m being shut down. There’s almost always, I might even say, I absolutely hear and say there’s always other things going on inside that are causing me to perceive the situation as I’m being shut down. Where it may be is, this happened to me more than once. People didn’t hear me.
I was speaking too quietly, or I spoke up always just as someone else started speaking up. So I felt like I was being rejected when in fact, they just had captured everyone’s attention before I did. There’s always other things in play. Even if what you believe is going on is also going on, it’s never entirely the case, and everything you described about your process for working through what this meant for you, where you wanted to take it next, how to find a way forward are all great techniques and tools and tips for any of these situations.
Whether it’s as tiny as, ‘I didn’t get what I want for lunch today’. ‘I must be a horrible person’ to the really big existential questions like you went through. Thank you for all that openness and vulnerability, Tamar.
Tamar
Yeah, of course. My pleasure.
Michael
And, as you are doing this for yourself, helping your clients do this for themselves, how do you help them feel safe and empowered to bring their unique talents in everything that they do and then to turn around and do this for everyone that they’re working with, that is working for them, so they are embedding this into their culture?
Tamar
Yeah, great question. Can you just tell me how are we doing on time, ’cause I can’t see?
Michael
It’s about halfway through our hour. I can go over if we need to, and if you can’t,
Tamar
No, no, I’m happy, you just, I’m gonna count on you to just, keep the time, just because I can’t see. Yeah, so great question. I guess I could just give like a high-level overview.
So, like I said, I’m not a believer in a one-size-fits-all strategy or solution. And, a lot of the people that I work with and that I speak with and really that I’m surrounded by at this point, after being a member of a few different inner circle communities and really building a lot of relationships with different people, throughout my career, I would say the main, I guess, persona of clients that I work with, are people who have, they’ve started their business and probably have bought like myself, and invested in so many different other people’s programs. Courses, programs, tools, frameworks, software, you name it. Like they’ve spent thousands of dollars, hours, months, years of time trying to figure things out, and things just are not working for them.
I would say that’s like, that’s usually, it’s like someone that’s tried to, you know, build a business for some time, or someone that’s like, been in business for a while and is just kind of plateaued and is not, you know, it doesn’t, feels kind of, lost needs direction, needs to just reconfigure and, you know, see what, where they should go next.
So I walk through, like I have a general process that I walk them through. The high level is the Align framework. Because for me, everything is about alignment. I started, I mean, professionally, I’m a UX product designer, and so, strategic alignment is something professionally that I’ve worked with from day one.
But in terms of alignment, I really, this is like a topic that I’ve really explored on a much deeper level, I would say in the recent, probably like two years of my career. And in building my business, this idea of ‘Does this align with who I am as a person? Does this align with the work that I’m doing, my core values, what I stand for, what my mission is, what I envision, you know, being the business and the person that I want to be, and showing up in the way that I know is true to myself?’
So I walk them through really, it’s like this step-by-step process framework of alignment. And so A stands for Assess, basically like five, the general phases are A is Assess, assess the current situation, where am I holding, and again, this can be for yourself personally, professionally, spiritually, financially, fill in the blank.
This is really just, it’s an alignment exercise. Again, depending on like the nature of the work that I’m doing, if it’s, you know, it could be all the way from a free webinar or workshop all the way to, you know, high ticket, paid one-on-one coaching, but, the idea really remains the same throughout and just given the, you know, nature of how I’m working with a client, it will just, you know, expand and we’ll build out on this.
But the core idea is we assess where the person is, where are they holding, what’s the current situation? L, we learn, we take what we’ve gathered the research, and we learn from it. We dissect it, try to understand it. I is for Ideas. We come up with ideas and solutions for how we can innovatively, creatively, come up with different ways to do whatever it’s that we’re doing, better or differently.
G is for game plan. So we come up with some sort of plan, roadmap, strategy. This is how we’re gonna do it, and N is for Nurture. Nurture whatever it is that we’re executing on. And then we start again. With A, assess, because ultimately, there is no one-size-fits-all. You might get a lot of hate from this podcast, but I’m gonna say it or this episode, but I’m gonna say it.
‘There is not one person or one course, or one thing that is going to be an investment that you person listening, that you are listening. There’s not one course that you are gonna buy that is going to be the secret sauce and answer to your problems or to your business. It’s not going to be the perfect puzzle solution for you.’
It’s not possible because you are unique, you are special. You have your own set of skills, your own set of your personality, your skills, your challenges, your circumstances, your financial status, whatever it is. It’s not possible to copy and paste someone else’s success into your life. It is possible to take tools that you gain from these courses and frameworks and process these in step-by-step frameworks.
It is, but you can’t blindly follow someone. You can’t blindly press the pay button and think that by copying and pasting someone else’s answer, you are going to see guaranteed success in the amount of time that they promise. It’s just not gonna happen. And I might get a lot of hate for saying that. And if you wanna cut it out, you are more than welcome to.
But I strongly, strongly believe, and it’s probably the best advice I could give any my clients and to anyone that’s listening to this podcast. Don’t. Don’t be fooled. Don’t be fooled to think that there is a one-size-fits-all solution to your specific challenge or problem. There are many incredible coaches and courses and frameworks and tools and softwares that will help you, that will equip you with the tools to help you do what you know how to do best, but it will not replace your customized strategic solution that you offer to your clients or that you bring to the table, to your friends, to your family, whatever it is.
So yeah, it’s the aligned framework. Like ask yourself what, like whether it’s professionally and you’re trying to figure out a business, you’re trying to figure out, you know, the next step, direction, team dynamics. I mean, there’s so many places in business where this could apply, whether it’s personally within your relationships, within whatever it is.
Ask yourself, like assess the situation and say, like, where am like, let me realign here. Like what is it that’s going on? How could I learn from this? Okay, what’s working? What’s not working? So if it’s not working, let’s come up with some ideas to help it, like improve or to come up with something that’s different that can help me accomplish whatever it is faster or better.
And then we’re gonna make a game plan and we’re gonna stick to it. We’re gonna nurture it, and then we’re gonna start again. And this is a process you can do daily, you do monthly, whatever. It’s just keeping in alignment with who you are and what you stand for.
Michael
A hundred percent. You’ll get no disagreement from me, and I doubt you’ll get much disagreement from my audience.
’cause this is everything I talk about as well. Start with one thing. Just choose one thing. You’ll get to all the others eventually. And then it’s all a bunch of tiny stuff, some tiny experiments, because we’re just taking a tiny step. Even if we fall flat on our face, it’s not gonna hurt that much. It’s not a big deal.
We haven’t. I am not gonna lose much. And because an experiment, you actually can’t fail because experiments aren’t about succeeding or failing. They’re about getting data. That’s all an experiment is, I did a thing, what happened? Okay, what does that tell me about how I might wanna do what I might wanna do next?
And just those three things can make it so much easier to delve into all this other stuff, ’cause oh my gosh. Understanding who I really am at my core brings up so much dust from the way I grew up, from what people have told me about who I’m supposed to be, who they want me to be, who they hope I could be, who they wished me to be.
And all the times that life said, nope, that’s not good. At least that was my interpretation. And it’s way easier if we can take that little cheek by cheek instead of trying to blow up that whole entire mountain all at once. Which is really hard to do, especially in a way that’s safe for us and anyone else that may be in that blast radius, which is pretty much everything else in the universe.
So this iterative, data-based, exploratory, playful approach is how you help people build these cultures. How you help them understand who they are, and how to bring that into everything that they do. What’s the business value of doing this? I get what I get out of it. What does the business get out of it?
Tamar
Yeah, like talk, you’re like talking to a business owner or a CEO?
Michael
Yeah. After anyone be so, whether I’m the founder, I’m the CEO, I wanna understand how this is gonna help me make my business better. And also all the way down to I’m a frontline manager and engineer, sales person, someone on at the very edges of the org chart. I know how this is gonna help me, how do I sell this to my manager, the people of the chain, so that they understand why me doing this, even if I’m not taking time away from anyone else, I’m still gonna disrupt everything because I’m showing up in a different way? How do I help them understand, how this is valuable, better?
Tamar
Mm-hmm.
So, okay, so there is, there’s a few. There’s a few ways I feel like I could answer this. I think if I understood correctly from your question, it sounds to me like you’re asking from the perspective of an employee adopting this framework for themselves and how it will impact the people around them. Is that did I understand that correctly?
Michael
Yeah. Let’s say for someone at the edge of the org structure, someone kind of in the middle and then people at the top, so the answers may be different.
Tamar
Yeah, so I’m gonna, I’m gonna actually start at the top and work my way down. So this is so much of the work that I’ve been, that I’ve been doing.
I would say really from the start of my career as a UX product designer, is probably the first time that I started to realize. But again, like, this is something that I like, do all the time now. So I would say like this, number one, everything starts from the top, right? So when it comes to, sitting down with a CEO and talking with them, just getting to know them, you know, and I hear about, I learn about their business, what it is that they’re doing, what are their business’ objective goals, what is like, you know, high level business strategy vision, you know, for 2025.
And then I sit down and I say, okay, what’s keeping you up at night? Like, what are you really stressed about? Right? And oftentimes, it’s not being able to successfully meet quarterly KPIs, not being able to increase in engagement scores, customer satisfaction scores, like what’s gonna impact the bottom line of the business.
Usually it’s something to that degree that’s affecting, the CEO or the business owner’s sleep. Now, when it comes to you know, mid-level manager or employee, that’s gonna look different. Right? But when it comes to the leadership team, right, like executives leadership, there are so many times where I come in and it’s like, I could tell you already probably what it is that you’re struggling with, what it is that you know, you’re having a hard time with.
What are those challenges? I said, but probably the solution that I’m gonna propose is not necessarily one that you’re gonna A, think of that you thought of or B, agree with. And so, when it comes to understanding strategic alignment, I only learned about this perspective as a UX designer that sat on the product team, like baked into the product team, like reporting to a manager who reported to the director of product, who reported to the CP, who reported to the CTO, who reported, right?
So, like, there was a nice command chain there. So I was like really at the bottom as a UX designe,r and as a UX designer, I was working on projects, and you know, just overseeing what it was that we were working on, product backlog, I don’t know, let’s say on a quarterly basis. And I had a unique positioning where I understood what the business was trying to do from a business strategic standpoint, but I also had the ability to talk to and work with our users and our customers and as someone that was working on our software design, I realized very quickly that the work that I was doing not only had nothing to do with the business strategy and was not going to help us achieve our business objective goals for the coming quarter, but it also wasn’t solving our users’ frustrations and challenges with our software.
And so I very quickly realized this gap of alignment, and that’s kind of what sparked my whole obsession with bridging this gap of alignment. And so that’s always how I start the conversation. Understanding the cost of misalignment within a business. So when I sit down with the CEO and I say, you know, it’s like, here’s everything that you’re trying to accomplish, but look at everything else that’s going on here.
Look at all the departments that you have that are working in silos. Look at the lack of collaboration that’s going on. The lack of communication, right? Look at all of the bridges that need to be bridged together, right? That need to come into alignment in order for you to achieve the goals as a business strategic goals that you wanna accomplish.
So in order for that to be in place, in order for you to sleep soundly at night, and in order for you to start actually seeing engagement scores and customer satisfaction scores go up in order for those things to happen, we have to take a little bit of a deeper look and understand, where is this gap of strategic alignment?
And that’s how the conversation starts. And so when I start having that conversation, suddenly a CEO, a founder, right? Suddenly they’re like, oh, one second. Okay. Whatever it is that she’s talking about is going to affect the bottom line of our business, is going to move the needle. It’s worth having a conversation with her.
And it’s the same thing for a manager. And it’s the same thing, I would say, it’s really the same thing for as you go down the levels. Understanding that, this is not talking about reinventing a process. This is not talking about making big changes and big, none of that. There doesn’t have to be a whole like overhaul here.
It just, there has to be an understanding, an assessment, an understanding of where is our business holding, what does collaboration look like? Are departments working in silos? Is there some cross-functional, cross-team collaboration going on? What does that look like? And let’s learn, is there? There might be. And that’s fantastic.
I’m a workshop facilitator. All four workshops, collaborative workshops, right? If that’s happening, amazing. If it’s not happening, let’s learn and come up with ideas, ideas for how we can make that happen. Because as a CEO I’m interested in, you know, successfully completing our business objective goals for the coming quarter.
And as a product manager, I’m really interested in seeing our product backlog, you know, start to get shorter and shorter, and as a right in each person, understanding the benefits of using this framework to whatever capacity they want, but just following this step-by-step framework. And plugging in whatever works for them.
The reason I call it a framework is because I don’t do the same exercises within each phase for each person. It is totally specific to what that person is dealing with. But again, it starts from the top and it goes down. I can’t, there’s only so much I can do and scream until I’m blue in the face with an employee or even just a, you know, manager.
Because if they don’t have authority to make a decision, it’s not gonna go anywhere. It just makes them more frustrated and makes them, you know, hate their job. But really, if I have the opportunity, I really try to go to the owner, CEO, founder, and just explain to them the benefits and what they have in it, what’s in it for them if they take the time to realign and assess where things are holding, because ultimately they just want the bottom line to keep going up.
They wanna know that we’re moving the needle for them and that everyone is happy, their customers are happy, and that they continue to pay the bills. So as long as you can talk their language and make sure that they are confident that you understand whatever it is you know, that they’re trying to accomplish, I find that I’ve been successful in those conversations.
Michael
And so the key realization here for people, wherever they are in the organization is, the better I understand who I am, the more I can show up aligned with that and the more easily I can perceive where I may be misaligned with the organization, where others may be misaligned with the organization, where the organization is misaligned with the organization, and then I can help bring that into alignment.
And the more all that comes into alignment, the more everything else the business cares about, and each person cares about individually. However, that connects into and aligns with what the business is there for. All that’s gonna go through the roots because we’re all able to consciously, intentionally, align ourselves with our situation, with the business goals, and have productive conversations about where that may be going off the path and how to get back on.
Tamar
Absolutely. Yeah.
Michael
I have a guess what your answer’s gonna be, and I’m gonna ask you this question anyway, because sometimes I’m wrong, if for nothing else. How do you help people you work with, your husband, kids, family yourselves, find their way through all of the change, uncertainty, and overwhelm that seems to be life these days?
Tamar
That’s a really good question. Okay, so professionally and personally might look different. But I would say it all comes back probably to the same source, which is that I believe that everything like happens for a reason. I believe that ultimately, I don’t have the answer. Like, I’m very intentional.
I think professionally, first of all, I do not claim to be any, you know, I don’t claim to be someone who has all the answers. I think for me, the key for me and the work that I do is actually claiming that I am not the expert and that the people that I’m working with, you, the client, you are the expert.
You know what’s best for you. You have the answers. Might take some time and tools and workshopping to get it out and to figure it out, and to organize it. But ultimately, at the end of the day, most of the time, if not all the time, we have the answers. And I think it just comes back to the beginning of believing in ourselves and believing and trusting ourselves and trusting our gut and having mentors and role models and people to talk to.
I mean, I have a lot of mentors. I have a lot of mentors. I have a lot of people that I, you know, soundboards for just, you know, talking things through all the time. I mean, I think that’s like crucially important. I think that probably is what helps me like, to support other people because I don’t claim to be, you know, I don’t have the answers.
I can support someone and be a soundboard for them as they try to figure it out, and I can help them, you know, come to those answers. But ultimately on their own, is usually what happens. Obviously, if it’s, you know, my kids, that’s gonna look a little bit different, you know? My daughter’s four years old and oh my goodness, yeah, she’s, got a lot of. Yeah, she has the, it looks very different with my kids, obviously. But yeah, the times are, uncertain, unknown, totally scary. I don’t really read the news. I don’t listen to the news. I don’t watch the news. I know it sounds crazy. I really try not to. Here and there maybe, but it’s just adds so much anxiety for no reason.
Like, I mean. If I have to know about something, I’ll find out about it. But that’s not to say you shouldn’t read the news. Absolutely. Please continue reading your news. I just, you know, everyone has to know what works for them. Whatever makes you feel a little bit more anxious. I would say just in general, like social media, until I started my business, I was not on social media at all.
LinkedIn was like the only platform I was on professionally. Personally, I am not on social media. None of you’ll never, like, I shouldn’t say never, unless it was a mistake. But I mean, I never, ever, ever intend to put any pictures of my family or my children on social media. I really don’t do social media.
That’s just my, like, personal boundary. I don’t feel comfortable with it. But yeah, I think it’s important to just stay away from the things that make you feel extra anxious or scared. Have the right mentors, role models, relationships in place to be able to support you in times where you don’t feel confident, where you don’t feel like you’re standing on stable grounds.
And you know, if, like me, like, you know, I, whatever your, if someone, you know, if you have a belief, if you. Like, whatever spirituality looks like for you, tap into that. That definitely helps me, like just in terms of me and like praying and, grounding myself. And just finding, you know, different tools and ways to be able to, to ground yourself, hobbies, outlets, just, you know, healthy emotional ways to express yourself, be there for yourself, connect with others. Yeah.
Michael
Healthy is the word that kept coming to mind as you were saying all that, that the best way to find our way through the crazy world is to use all the tools we talked about today, to get closer to what healthy means for you, and just keep doing that.
You’d be a little bit closer, healthy for you every day, and that would be a little bit easier to have that resilience, adaptability needs that will let you skate through life. Have fun with it.
Tamar
Yep.
Michael
For people, Tamar, who love everything we’ve talked about today, and would love to connect with you for everything from that free webinar to the big one-on-one coaching. What’s the best way for them to find you, learn more if they’re not quite sure what they want yet, where they can find more?
Tamar
Yeah. LinkedIn is gonna be the best place to find me. So LinkedIn, Tamar, T-A-M-A-R- Stolz, S-T-O-L-Z. There is no T at the end. It’s just L-Z-S-T-O-L-Z.
Reach out on LinkedIn. I’d love to connect with you. And yeah, I hope that everybody gained, you know, a little something. I like to keep things practical and actionable takeaways. So hopefully, there was something that I did that was practical. But thank you for giving me the opportunity to be here.
It’s really, it’s an honor to be here, and it’s amazing the work that you’re doing, so thank you. Thank you for having me.
Michael
You’re welcome. I, at the very least, have learned multiple things today. Hopefully, our audience will let us know what they learned when this goes live.
You are in one of the places they can find you and learn more, and interact is your community, correct?
Tamar
Yeah. You could join my community. I know that there are some people, so it’s on school. It’s free to join. I know that there are some people who, you know, are not familiar with platforms and so when they see that they have to sign up for a new software or tool, it makes them, you know, a little bit uncertain. It is free, but I know that still could be a barrier to entry. So, definitely feel free to check out my community. Feel free to check out my podcast, the Unstoppable Product Pioneer podcast. Say it five times fast and lemme know. Yeah, so you can, you can definitely join the community.
It’s alignmentiskey.com. But yeah, I think LinkedIn. I mean, if you’re on LinkedIn, it’s probably the quickest, fastest, easiest way.
Michael
And I’ll have all those links in the show notes. What would you like to leave our audience with today, Tamar?
Tamar
I would say, which is like everything that I, you know, in all the work that I do and in everything I believe in, I would say OWN THE YOU.
Own the abilities that you have, own the gifts and talents and skills and challenges that you have, because every single thing that you’ve been given or that you’ve been gifted with, yes, the good things and the challenges are what make you YOU. And there is no one else that can replace that or pretend to be that.
So just be yourself ’cause everyone else is taken.
Michael
I like that. Be yourself. Everyone else is taken. That’s great to put it.
Tamar
I didn’t make that up. I saw that somewhere years ago, but
Michael
I love it.
Tamar
Yeah
Michael
You brought it to our attention anyway. Or at least mine. Thank you, Tamar, for this lovely conversation today.
Tamar
Thank you.
Michael
And thank you, audience, for joining us today. Please let Tamar and I know, how are you owning your ‘you’ a little more today? We are so curious. Thanks and have a great day.